WARNING: Incoming rant.
DISCLAIMER: No matter who you are, this blog entry is not talking about you. I'm serious. As with most of my rants, I have no specific target whatsoever; I have only a knee-jerk reaction to a general trend that I have noticed.
Nice. Sometimes people tell me that they think I'm nice and I just want to punch their faces in. Which, I suppose, makes me a little less nice. And I'm glad.
You see, there are two definitions of nice. There's the first one, in which you are kind to other people and small animals and refrain from being mean without truly good cause.
And then there's the second one, gaining in popularity rapidly especially on the net, in which you will say and do any cringing bootlicking toadying thing, including telling blatant lies, because to do otherwise might hurt someone's precious feelings.
The first kind of niceness is, arguably, a good thing, although you should not for a minute be fooled into thinking that just because a person is nice to you automatically means that said person is also a good and decent human being. But the second kind...
Oh, the second kind.
People are people, profoundly fucked-up creatures that muddle through life as best they can, haplessly doing damage to themselves and each other. Nothing we can do will ever change the fact that most of them are interested primarily in what you can do for them. Ulterior motives will never vanish. And as long as people want something from you, they'll continue to kiss your ass with varying amounts of sincerity.
I don't expect anything to ever change. I just expect to get a decent rant out of it. That doesn't mean that I don't hate it.
In conclusion, fuck your 'nice' if it's not honest. Fuck it if it's not sincere. Sometimes I think that I'd prefer no feedback at all over obviously shallow praise. But then I remember, no, I have a massive and bloated ego that needs a constant influx of calories, empty or not.
But I swear on everything that you and I hold holy, if I give you a compliment, I am damn well going to mean it. Because nothing chaps my ass worse than sugar-coated little white lies falling from my mouth. And how they can chap my ass while coming from my mouth, which is two feet away, remains a mystery to this day.
Replies: add your comment: currently 24 comments
Amen, sister.
And I just read the True Horror Story What Was Your Fat Camp. And I agree with you completely and totally. I was just lucky, I guess, to have a set of parents who made me realize that all of these looks-obsessed (sp?) _idiots_ aren't worth trying to be like. Which is good, because I would probably be a good candidate for eating disorders otherwise.
Posted by Kara Jade @ 01/22/2002 01:02 AM EST
If it counts any, Moon, I think you're nice. Really.
Posted by Duo Maxwell @ 01/22/2002 02:21 AM EST
Well, for what it's worth, I save my fawning praise for those I genuinely admire. As far as *YOU*, Mooncalf... well, you have an interesting blog, and can spoof well enough to give me some entertainment value. That's not enough for me to fawn over, but it *is* enough to keep me coming back and pitching my two cents in. Which I suppose is *something* of a compliment. And if I managed to be offensive, just remember that I'm evil :^p.
Posted by Nathan @ 01/22/2002 02:43 AM EST
Of COURSE you're evil, Nathan! You're a NATHAN!
...you know, the really painfully irritating person who went to the trouble of requesting authorization and adding me on ICQ just so they could ignore my existance is a Nathan.
And, veering back to the topic... you've pretty much pegged why I left Artcorner, Moo. Everyone was expected to be nice to everyone else. Everyone was expected to be nice to people who were assholes all the time. Everyone was expected to forgive Kei and be nice to her after she called the entire BBS "halfassers" even though she pretty clearly felt she was right and made sure we knew it. And 99% of everyone sucked up to the REFFs nonstop in hopes that they would be accepted into the Secret REFF Inner Circle of Massive Popularity.
...which, of course, made me want to KILL THEM. ALL OF THEEEEEEM.
....okay, wow, that was a really, really long example-laden way for me to say 'YEAH, RIGHT ON, YOU PREACH IT MOO!'
Posted by Ed @ 01/22/2002 10:24 AM EST
True. 'Course, my experiences are different - I'm aside the phenomenon, watching it, and not stuck in it, thank Deity of Choice. From the group(s) I've seen, there are the People who are Cool (and who are always sucked up to) and there are the Easy Targets (the newbie, the kid younger than everybody else who doesn't know better, etc.) So the happyfakenicecutesypoo people will also happily whip out the chainsaws and hack people to bits, but only *some* people, who they deign aren't worthy of basic, noncutesy, nonflamey respect. (See the Unified Front in part B.)
The others are an endless round of "U RoX0R!" as mentioned. And if there's no actual cachet involved in the ass-kissing, which sometimes there isn't, they form a weird unified front - they flame for each other and kiss up to each other even though they're really all the same level of skill in [fill in skill of choice here].
Sorry about that. Touchy topic.
Posted by StB @ 01/22/2002 01:28 PM EST
It is interesting the the roots of the word "nice" from Old English is foolish or wanton and the root of "nice" from Latin is ignorant. It also means to be coy or "cutesy". Not a very nice word.
Posted by Father Moon @ 01/22/2002 02:19 PM EST
WOO HOO!!!! Tell it like it is!! XD
Although the truth sometimes hurts, it hurts a lot more to find that people *don't mean it*. :\
Gee.. I have no idea what's been going on since I officially left the online chat world, but yeesh~ I'm 3/4ths glad I did. ^^;
On the other hand, I do miss ye folks~ T_T
*hughugs~*
Kitsy
P.S.> I still love that Psycho Mie~ XD
Posted by Kitsy @ 01/23/2002 01:46 AM EST
Moon, you are so good at saying what most of us are THINKING, in words, something I often fail to do correctly, I feel. You deserve great applause. And some ice cream. ^_'
There's not much more I can say except "Amen, preach it, Sister!!"
Heh. I have more than I'd like to notice that yes, people will lie to you just because they want you to do something for them. It's like a perverse of JFK's famous quote; "Ask Not What You Can Do For Someone, But What Someone Can Do For YOU". I know of people who will do this to other people, but fortunately I have not had this happen to me personally very often. It does supremely suck that people have to be this way.
I consider myself a "nice" person, in the first kind, which I always THOUGHT to be a good thing. I'm kind to basically everyone, and I damn sure TRY to be at least. But other people don't seem to think it;'s a good thing that I am this way. Well, not only do I WANT to be nice to people, I'm trying to set an example. An example which seems to fail. But it's in my soul; I am nice because I just am that way.
And indeed, when I give someone a compliment, I damn well MEAN it. I dont say something like that if I don't mean it; that's not fair and I have no reason to lie. Unlike other people who DO feel they have a reason to lie. And that's unfortunate. Auy....
Posted by Wolf @ 01/23/2002 11:43 AM EST
[laughs] I dunno, Moonie. Personally, I'd rather read a creative lie than a dull and lifeless truth anyday. There are some truly brilliant bullshit spreaders out there, and I applaud them just as loudly as I do the complacently nice people who give complacently nice comments because being good and pure is so deeply bred into them that they can't rouse the imagination to do any differently.
On the other hand, really obvious and blatent asskissing is exactly as annoying as you pointed out, and those little peckers should get a good thump upside the head for so disgracing the noble art of lying through your teeth.
Posted by Lex @ 01/23/2002 01:49 PM EST
Darn it, Mooncalf, why'd you have to preface that with the caveat that you ain't referring to anyone in particular? That's...way too nice and considerate. Why won't you let us jump to snap conclusions that you are secretly talking about us/them/Peggy Sue? That's not fair!
Posted by Adobe Scribe @ 01/23/2002 04:19 PM EST
Y'know, this entry pisses me off. A lot.
Why? I can't babble about it being right on the mark without it sounding like I'm kissing ass. *sulks in the corner*
Posted by Yscaldine @ 01/23/2002 05:24 PM EST
I'm such a moron. I should've just said this: I agree with you. Wholeheartedly. *goes to study herself into smartness*
Posted by Yscaldine @ 01/23/2002 05:30 PM EST
*rolls eyes* You're never going to let yourself work out a happy medium, are you? It's generally good practice to take with a pinch of salt anything that one writes and feels the need to season with expletives in italics. It shows possible judgement errors clouded by sheer hate and loathing.
"Good Omens"-wise, few people do actually use "nice" in its proper context, most converting it into, (in Fowler's words) a mere diffuser of vague and mild agreeableness (not that this bears no relation to etymology). I'd understand the rant more if it was about this usage of the word "nice", but I know you actually do have a life.
So people tell you that you're pleasing and agreeable. Why are you trying to discredit everything they say about you? Instead you choose to waffle on about insincerity and empty promises. Is this being fair or just myopically judgmental? People tell you that they find you agreeable, fine. This doesn't mean that you have to martyr yourself to a delusional cause and go "Oh, You're wanting me to acknowledge your existence and somehow reciprocate."
You've ALREADY reciprocated, honey-chile. You take the effort to write pleasing fanfiction (which is a rarity)and people want to tell you how much they appreciate this. To discredit them is to tell yourself that their opinion doesn't matter, in which case, why the heck did you ever post your fanfiction? Authors should always want feedback. It indicates a healthy pride in their own work.
So a lot of it seems sycophantic and false. Have you taken into consideration that these many of these people read fanfiction because they do not possess the literary skills to do so? Poorly-phrased comments may sound shallow, but there's no call to be judgemental about that either. But I do accede that there must be cases in which you are in the right.
The important thing is to get your priorities straight: Compliments are always best from people whose opinion you actually do value. Take me for example; anything I say you can dismiss with a pinch of salt, because we aren't acquaintances and henceforth, I am irrelevant. However, if a close friend should fawn over your work, don't tell me that you'd discredit his or her opinion because that would implicate that you don't trust people any more, in which case, you really should go off and seek euthanasia. There's no point in living if your sole existence is to be a frump. Relationships are based on respect and trust and you need to realise that even people who do sycophate really do respect you. It's not a reason to get anguished, neither a reason to get all vainglorious and tragicomical about your quota of netfame (Yes, you do sound a tad shallow when you bitch about popularity - all people do). You use their empty comments to fuel your ego, they use you to get acknowledged. I don't see why you can't live with this transaction without bitching about it. Appreciate what you have, there are billions of people who would KILL to be as well-off and respected as you are.
And let me tell you this as a person, it's all very well to speak your mind and be honest, but you don't get many friends that way. At least, not face-to-face flesh-and-bone friends. People don't want to hear the truth about themselves - I should know. Would want to live in a world where people constantly tell you all your character flaws? Then why do you bitch so much about people telling you that you're fat? Could that be an observation and not a criticism? There are valid reasons for not being fat - they might want you to live a longer and more fulfilling life. Paranoia and seeking ulterior motives indicates that you've given up on the entire human race. Which is silly because as much as I hate to admit it, I love select members of the human community.
Even your last line indicates a measure of confusion- "And I loathe and despise the fact that we currently live in an era and a culture (and on an internet) that all but requires us to tell those 'little white lies' in order to keep the love and respect of people who deserve neither."
-Aren't we stretching the definition of "love" and "respect" here? Also, despite saying all this, I'll bet you ARE still loved and respected, in which case the argument is moot.
I'm really sorry, but I love and respect your work. I think you are one of the only capable fanfiction writers on the internet and I'm not afraid to say so. I love your loud and temperamental personality and even love the way you are so willing to share and reveal yourself on your blog. Make what you will of that.
And all I want is to read your work. And that is reward enough, thank you.
Posted by curious @ 01/24/2002 10:00 AM EST
Argh, darn lapses of concentration.
I meant to insert an "And I'm sure you do know people whom you love too." after the sixth paragraph. The argument makes no sense otherwise.
And there should be a "you" twixt the "would" and "want".
Please forgive me my inadequacies. (These post-scripts really do disrupt dramatic effect. Dang)
Posted by curious @ 01/24/2002 10:17 AM EST
...wow. Curious, if you have work online I'd love to see it. (Email's up there.) Few people have the moxie to respectfully contradict people in their own weblogs, and I respect that. Really.
...shutting up now.
Posted by StB @ 01/24/2002 02:35 PM EST
Even less people have the moxy to contradict someone in their own weblog and sign their name/email address, and apparently we still haven't found any of those.
Posted by Ed @ 01/24/2002 03:05 PM EST
Fun. A bit snarky, but...fun. I need to read you more regularly.
And no, you don't know who I am. Don't worry that we met at a party once and you've forgotten or something.
Posted by AJ @ 01/24/2002 03:43 PM EST
Fine, I give in to your quaint 'Moxie challenge'. But posting an email address here still comes across as being pretty shallow, given the nature of this thread (satire). Flood it with hatemail if you want, I guess I deserve it. Are you pleased with yourself, Ed?
The problem is that most blogs eventually degenerate into a mish-mosh of "Sing it, sister" comments. Of course this is because blogs tend to attract like-minded people, but it frankly bores the heck out of me. But hey, nobody asked for my opinion (although that's what a comments section normally is for) - I'll stop posting here if you ask. I'd kill myself if I became a troll.
I have no idea what bloggers want from the comments section of a Livejournal/blog - do you really want frank opinions or just plain support and reassurance?
Posted by curious (nee dariru) @ 01/24/2002 03:58 PM EST
What bloggers want from a comments section? Personally, intelligent, rational discource.
Speaking for Mooncalf? No clue, but I'd guess 'smut'.
Posted by Suze @ 01/24/2002 10:35 PM EST
I noticed this entry. I've realized that it's about me. Maybe it's because I've been hanging around too many people like the twisted ones you've described. I came to a similar conclusion a while ago. Some of the most evil people you meet are oh so polite and soft spoken... and ultimately empty. Unfortunately behaviour is often a learned dis-ease. I fear I may have succumbed (without excuse) to this 'creeping malaise'. So in effect the rant is about people like me. I will tell you something about us. We are (or can be) generally afraid of things that aren't there. Some of us think ourselves in circles until we froth and collapse mentally while others have had any sense of self brow-beaten out of us. Still others maybe aggressively full of ourselves that only getting crushed can wake us up. I can't say whether I'm one or the other. A little of the first two I guess. I used to write prose and music. It slowed to a trickle a while ago. It's futile when you second guess yourself all the time. It's frustrating. That's as far as I'll go because I've since learned that nobody wants to hear what we feel like almost constantly. I think this is a wise sentiment on your part because if you heard it all the time you'd either impale us or fall prey to the same grey, spiritless worry. You guys already know we're just barely holding it together anyhow so you're as patient as your mood allows. I've discovered I don't like it when I lie. I'm not even very good at it. (Haven't had a lot of practice really...) But I do do it. I could say I'm sorry but I'm too tired and I have far less patience than you do Miss Mooncalf. That's why we take the quick and easy path. Please try to remember that not all of us were BORN with forked tongues. I still have remnants of the first kind of nice too, the kind I was given by my folks. We never know it surfaces until it begins to disappear... and then we are greyer than before, a little bit stonier inside. It's like feeling a cloud crossing the sun on a winter morning. I figure I can say I damn well mean this but knowing my character, do YOU believe me? Is it candour or a weeping croc?
Posted by Chris @ 01/24/2002 11:36 PM EST
I f*%#ing well hate the concept of f*%&ing well hating concepts!
Posted by RoRo @ 01/25/2002 12:16 AM EST
Cripes. Good morning. Boy, I can't leave you people alone for a second. Right.
Cheers, curious dariru! Basically, feel free to say whatever you wish, as long as it's on-topic (more or less), well thought out (more or less), and relatively... well, 'respectful' is kind of a loaded term. Let's say 'non-inflammatory'.
That, or funny. I'll put up with a lot in return for 'funny'.
I like comments. Hell, I like disagreement, as long as it's relatively well-mannered. The only comments I ever delete are pointless flames. I claim that writing 'yur so stoopid' does not qualify as germane to the discussion.
Anyway.
I do not rebut well. I never have. So, let me simply say that I agree with a large number of your points, I also agree with a large number of /my/ points, and feel that we are, perhaps, coming at this issue from slightly different angles. I respect the fact that you are willing and able to respectfully stand up to me about this, and I encourage you to do so more often.
Perhaps the issue would have been clearer if I had given specific examples of what I meant. However, doing so makes me uncomfortable, since all of those examples include other living breathing human beings who might not care to have such things shared.
And, really, when you get right down to it, this was a rant, not a balanced discussion. Annoyed Me != Calm Me, in almost every respect. I really took no pains to be fair, or logical, or reasonable, but spat out venom in every direction and indulged myself in snappish hyperbole. And, you know, after I did that, I felt better. Consider it... emotional vomiting, I suppose. Or just plain 'venting'.
It's terribly trite and self-congratulatory to say 'it's my blog so I'll say what I want', not to mention passive-aggressive, but, uh, I guess that's what I did. Not only that, I have the crude satisfaction of knowing that I vent to an audience. Ridiculously tacky of me, really. I guess that's why I put up warnings.
And I can't believe I just seriously typed the term passive-aggressive. Hang on, I'll hit myself.
As for the rest of you: I find your ideas intriguing, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. Also, your prose style is nifty, and I have absolutely nothing against the word 'fuck', so feel free to type it out!
Posted by Mooncalf @ 01/26/2002 01:48 AM EST
Okay, looks like I'm late... But hey, I got something to say, and the commenting isn't closed. =3 I see white text field wide open! *ducks bricks*
Anyway, in my view, *many* people fall for the deathtraps of sweet lies. Yup, deathtraps; I'm not talking about silly little traps that you can get over by telling yourself, "...he's just being nice, I know that I suck."
The problem with deathtrap level white lies - half the times, the 'nice' individual does not mean any harm. At least, not directly. The person just doesn't want to hurt others even though they are being really really annoying and all. But what's the point if you are going to talk behind backs later?
The point: you make them like *you*, and hate your friends (whom you talk to, behind backs of others). X_x;
Posted by Keiiii @ 01/27/2002 12:26 AM EST
I was attracted by the 23
peace
Posted by fritx @ 01/28/2002 03:26 PM EST
